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Before you go and negotiate the salary read THIS book. Or do the audio book. There is a section on negotiating salary but the whole book is useful. Really changed the way I talk with people.
I'm reading a similar book: Never Split the Difference: Negotiating As If Your Life Depended On It. It's actually just a straight up clinic on persuasive communication.
OP.
You don't have to justify shit. Its your business, its your time, and its your life!
Tell them, look we both want your bookkeeping to be accurate. It is clear in the past there have been challenges, and we/I are no longer the right firm to support you.
XXXX will be our last invoice.
Thank you and good luck.
Do this by phone, and send the discussion points by email! You can walk away. They may not pay your last invoice, but consider that bad karma on them.
If you need a pep yourself up a bit more go read this: https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-Conversations-Talking-Stakes-Second-ebook-dp-B005K0AYH4/dp/B005K0AYH4/ref=mt_kindle?_encoding=UTF8&me=&qid=
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Personally I like how /u/aphex732 worded his response, try that too.
While it's not directly CRE related, I like Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss. It's a hostage negotiator's take on human behavior and how to capitalize on the innate tendencies of people under pressure. Kind of a cross between the Netflix series Mindhunter and a sales book. Definitely fun to read if you're in to criminal history, but also useful for the give-and-take of CRE deals.
Practice. Lots of practice. If you go into a negotiation not willing to lose it all, you've already lost.
Interview for jobs. You should always be looking.
Making friend and influencing people is good.
Also: Never Split the Difference: Negotiating As If Your Life Depended On It https://www.amazon.com/dp/0062407805/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_tWsWBbKWP1BB7
Congratulations! To anyone else looking for guidance in this area, I strongly recommend reading Getting to Yes. https://www.amazon.ca/Getting-Yes-Negotiating-Agreement-Without/dp/0143118757/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=getting+to+yes&qid=1576216449&sr=8-1
>You could give them a counter offer if you're considering turning them down.
I use an extreme anchor, and it works very very well. It's almost like magic.
I know the high end for a sys engineer pay in my area. If I can't get them to give me an offered salary for the position, I'll tell them a number 30% higher than that that is oddly specific, like I did the math and knew something they didn't.
One of two things happen. Either they fold entirely and say the offered salary, which is usually half of what I think is fair, or they continue talking to me. Any time there isn't a hard NO from them, I have the upper hand.
Giving that extreme anchor also inclines them to go straight to their max, illicit an emotional response from them in several ways that benefit me, puts their negotiation on the back foot, and give me valuable details for any counteroffer they may want to give me. This tactic got me +15k over my current employers' stated maximum offer.
https://www.amazon.com/Never-Split-Difference-Negotiating-Depended/dp/0062407805
>EDIT: Downvoting someone clearly trying to have a legitimate discussion and calling me a racist does nothing. If you wanna have a more fair admissions process you can't just downvote every opinion you don't like.
I agree, but I feel like you're missing the point behind all the downvotes/name-calling.
When you're trying to have a discussion on a controversial topic, you not only have to watch for what you say, but also how you say it. When you say something like "on average Asian Americans lack in personality", you can pad it with formality and kindness—but at the end of the day, it's still a pretty insulting thing to say.
You might counter that it's not your intention to offend and that you have legitimate reasons for believing your generalization is accurate—I'm sure you do, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a fairly rude statement. If you wanted a better reception to your comment, you should've taken more care to build up your belief in a respectful manner, rather than just slapping it on as the first sentence without any afterthought.
I see patterns like this everywhere honestly—people think that if they're rational and reasonable then their arguments will win the day, but there's a lot more to arguing than simply being logical. I'd like to recommend a book to you:
I think it'll help you avoid situations like this in the future.
1,500 reviews on Amazon.
Accumulated 4.5/5 stars [it's 5/5 folks, don't get me wrong]
Anyone interested in some late summer reading?
https://www.amazon.com/Trump-Art-Deal-Donald-J/dp/0345479173
>Chris Voss is a former FBI Hostage Negotiator and he's got some great ideas about negotiating salaries.
He's also got a book on negotiating too. I'm reading it now. It's an easy to digest book so far. Only two chapters in so can't speak to how good the advice is or how applicable it is to compensation negotiations.
Kannattaa lukea https://www.amazon.com/Never-Split-Difference-Negotiating-Depended-ebook/dp/B014DUR7L2 mutta käytännössä teet niin että yrität saada sen työnantajan sanomaan oman tarjouksen ja sitten tingit ylöspäin. Jos tuo ei onnistu niin annat omasta mielestä ihan poskettoman mutta jollain tasolla järkevän palkkatarjouksen mieluiten haarukkana tyyliin 5k - 7k. Sitten vaan odottamaan vastatarjousta josta neuvottelet sitten ylöspäin niin paljon kun mahdollista.
It sounds like you may be quite conservative with your pricing. I bet they think they are getting a good deal.
I follow a few loose rules when it comes to pricing:
- The client should think it's expensive, but worth it. As in, their eye should twitch a little the first time you tell them your pricing, but tell you after the job is done that it was worth every dollar.
- If they don't push back on pricing you left some money on the table. There are entire books on negotiation (my fav) but if they don't negotiate it means they were likely willing to pay more and felt like they got a deal and didn't need to negotiate.
- Negotiating on pricing isn't a confrontation. You want to work with them, they want to work with you, it's simply a civil discussion around the terms.
- If they get mad at your pricing do you really want to work with them? That means they may be trying to manipulate you or negotiate in bad faith, or they don't think you're worth the cost. Both are excellent reasons not to work with someone.
- People will pay what you convince them you're worth. They don't know what a good UX writer is worth, it's your job to tell them and convince them that $XXX/hr is worth it.
- If it feels like you're charging too much and it makes you nervous to present the price, you're probably doing great. Everyone -- big famous agencies included -- are essentially faking it and trying to get away with charging as much as they can. It's all a big game basically, so why not aim for the fences.
- Once you set a price you're kinda anchored there, so set it higher to start. The worst thing they can say is no.
Hope this helps!
Never Split the Difference. It's a book about negotiation, which may sound super-specific, until you realize that all conversations you have are negotiations. With your own manager, with your customers and clients, with your reports. There may not be high stakes in most of them, but gathering information and earning Ws all the time pays off in the long run.
The thing is, you can protect your boundaries without resorting to hostility. Just calmly asking "How can that work for me, given that... <whatever issues the proposed boundary crossing raises for you>?" is a good start.
Beyond repression of anger, there is a range of behaviors which suppress the hostile response, but still protect your interests.
<em>Never Split the Difference</em> is a good book about nonviolent negotiation strategies (by a former FBI hostage negotiator.)
Hey everyone. I’m a 9w1 who would just like to recommend this book to other 9s. I’ve listened to it all the way through at least three times.
I’m not going to say it has “cured” me of being conflict avoidant, but I will say it has helped me learn tools to deal with conflict and even embrace the concept that conflict is necessary and healthy. As 9s we’re eventually pushed to conflict whether we like it or not. I think our main problem is that we push it off so much that when we are finally forced into conflict it’s in very dramatic terms and we’re very triggered and angry. In essence we explode.
Learning to deal with conflict early, and in a healthy manner is key, IMO. I’m also a big fan of Talking to Strangers, just as a fun, information oriented book to help us learn the common pitfalls of communication.
Great advice in this thread for sure... I just came to add some recommended reading: Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss.
edited to include a link https://www.amazon.com/Never-Split-Difference-Negotiating-Depended/dp/0062407805
Very good points. Sounds like you've read Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking When Stakes Are High b/c this comment outlines pretty much exactly how you should handle this situation.
Looks like you've made up your mind. Put on your best suit and read this before you go to the bank ;-)
Good luck.
https://www.amazon.com/Never-Split-Difference-Negotiating-Depended-ebook/dp/B014DUR7L2
You need to read a self help book on negotiating. Recommend Chris Voss - Never Split the Difference: Negotiating As If Your Life Depended On It
I had training called "crucial conversations" that very clearly lays out how to tactfully address situations like this.
I'm by no means suggesting that by reading this book you will solve ALL of your problems.
Speed read Never Split The Difference and get all that money back with a lot of direct eye contact and your hands on the counter when you speak to the manager. https://www.amazon.com/Never-Split-Difference-Negotiating-Depended/dp/0062407805/ref=nodl_
You did.
First you interview so both sides agree they want the deal. You’re selling labor (supply) they need it (demand).
After both sides agree that “the right deal” likely exists (verbal non binding) the buyer makes a bid.
You the seller request concessions because supply < demand (always). Biz buy labor to profit (duh) so not hiring someone is second most expensive choice to picking wrong person. Remember we also established your the guy from previous step.
After agreeing on deal structure they document it. You should also document in email agreement process. “Alice will confirm if +5 PTO days is accessible to management “
Next, triple check their written offer matches the tentative agreements from negotiations. If it’s missing it won’t happen later
Then with leverage the written over against other offers to get best price for labor.
Lastly tech is very tiny world be polite when you quit but assuming they’ll screw you. Give them a weeks notice, never a month
Never Split the Difference: Negotiating As If Your Life Depended On It https://www.amazon.com/dp/0062407805/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_YCVXPFMXA3NRD12NA0D6
I would highly recommend you check out the book Crucial Conversations, which I'll link to below. If your view is that tense conversations are never valuable because nobody ever wins, than I suspect that something about your own communication style is CREATING no-win situations and if you could learn to understand/handle tense conversations differently, you could see drastically different results. This book has been very helpful for me for similar reasons.
Crucial Conversations Tools for Talking When Stakes Are High, Second Edition https://www.amazon.com/dp/0071771328/ref=cm_sw_r_awdo_JV99R3FBQEDW6GTQ4115
I'm sure you probably have tons of reading to do but you should try and read "Never Split the Difference" by Chris Voss, it has a lot of pretty easy to use techniques on how you can make people come up with the solutions that benefit you. He was an FBI hostage negotiator who changed the way they do their negotiating. The techniques are pretty effective when you put them into play.
edit: I just realized the book has 23,000+ reviews on amazon and has five stars.
I would aim higher than 120k honestly given your background. You could still turn around that specific call too if it goes on. You could say something after the next round like:
> Having heard more about the position, needed skills, and responsibilities, I would need $xyz-k salary.
This is an excellent book on negotiation if you need more support in this area: Never Split the Difference
https://www.amazon.com/Never-Split-Difference-Negotiating-Depended/dp/0062407805
Getting to the "Yes, exactly that." moment with the customer. When you've drilled through all of the noise and actually understood their motivators and have presented the appropriate solution. Such a huge hit for me.
When you negotiate with your scrum team or ask for a raise.
Never Split the Difference: Negotiating As If Your Life Depended On It https://smile.amazon.com/dp/0062407805/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_38Q6KHJ6TB6VW16DQGP0
Looks like you're on deck for a crucial conversation, lucky you!
For any situation like this the smart money is on talking it through, even though it's not easy and you might feel like you don't owe him this. It'll be awkward, and he might get aggressive, more than likely from what you're saying it sounds like he probably just won't listen and will continue business as usual like nothing happened. He's not taking the hint, so it's basically either give him an ultimatum or move on and cut ties with him.
This is the act of integrity: you lay your cards on the table and tell him you don't get what you want out of this relationship. That's the core of what's going on here. What he does next is on him and you've washed your hands of the situation. If he steps up to the plate and becomes a better friend, then maybe that would be good? If he doesn't improve IMO you are now fully within your rights to "ghost" him, even though since you told him what's going on it's not strictly ghosting. He had the option to prevent it and chose not to. To tie this up you will probably want to enforce a boundary of sorts, and if the open conversation fails you'll have to tell him the truth "I don't want you contacting me anymore." If that fails block him. So that's basically the "high road," you can do what you want of course, but that's the most moral and effective way to do this.